ThoughtWorks
  • 联系我们
  • Español
  • Português
  • Deutsch
  • English
概况
  • 工匠精神和科技思维

    采用现代的软件开发方法,更快地交付价值

    智能驱动的决策机制

    利用数据资产解锁新价值来源

  • 低摩擦的运营模式

    提升组织的变革响应力

    企业级平台战略

    创建与经营战略发展同步的灵活的技术平台

  • 客户洞察和数字化产品能力

    快速设计、交付及演进优质产品和卓越体验

    合作伙伴

    利用我们可靠的合作商网络来扩大我们为客户提供的成果

概况
  • 汽车企业
  • 清洁技术,能源与公用事业
  • 金融和保险企业
  • 医疗企业
  • 媒体和出版业
  • 非盈利性组织
  • 公共服务机构
  • 零售业和电商
  • 旅游业和运输业
概况

特色

  • 技术

    深入探索企业技术与卓越工程管理

  • 商业

    及时了解数字领导者的最新业务和行业见解

  • 文化

    分享职业发展心得,以及我们对社会公正和包容性的见解

数字出版物和工具

  • 技术雷达

    对前沿技术提供意见和指引

  • 视野

    服务数字读者的出版物

  • 数字化流畅度模型

    可以将应对不确定性所需的数字能力进行优先级划分的模型

  • 解码器

    业务主管的A-Z技术指南

所有洞见

  • 文章

    助力商业的专业洞见

  • 博客

    ThoughtWorks 全球员工的洞见及观点

  • 书籍

    浏览更多我们的书籍

  • 播客

    分析商业和技术最新趋势的精彩对话

概况
  • 申请流程

    面试准备

  • 毕业生和变换职业者

    正确开启技术生涯

  • 搜索工作

    在您所在的区域寻找正在招聘的岗位

  • 保持联系

    订阅我们的月度新闻简报

概况
  • 会议与活动
  • 多元与包容
  • 新闻
  • 开源
  • 领导层
  • 社会影响力
  • Español
  • Português
  • Deutsch
  • English
ThoughtWorks菜单
  • 关闭   ✕
  • 产品及服务
  • 合作伙伴
  • 洞见
  • 加入我们
  • 关于我们
  • 联系我们
  • 返回
  • 关闭   ✕
  • 概况
  • 工匠精神和科技思维

    采用现代的软件开发方法,更快地交付价值

  • 客户洞察和数字化产品能力

    快速设计、交付及演进优质产品和卓越体验

  • 低摩擦的运营模式

    提升组织的变革响应力

  • 智能驱动的决策机制

    利用数据资产解锁新价值来源

  • 合作伙伴

    利用我们可靠的合作商网络来扩大我们为客户提供的成果

  • 企业级平台战略

    创建与经营战略发展同步的灵活的技术平台

  • 返回
  • 关闭   ✕
  • 概况
  • 汽车企业
  • 清洁技术,能源与公用事业
  • 金融和保险企业
  • 医疗企业
  • 媒体和出版业
  • 非盈利性组织
  • 公共服务机构
  • 零售业和电商
  • 旅游业和运输业
  • 返回
  • 关闭   ✕
  • 概况
  • 特色

  • 技术

    深入探索企业技术与卓越工程管理

  • 商业

    及时了解数字领导者的最新业务和行业见解

  • 文化

    分享职业发展心得,以及我们对社会公正和包容性的见解

  • 数字出版物和工具

  • 技术雷达

    对前沿技术提供意见和指引

  • 视野

    服务数字读者的出版物

  • 数字化流畅度模型

    可以将应对不确定性所需的数字能力进行优先级划分的模型

  • 解码器

    业务主管的A-Z技术指南

  • 所有洞见

  • 文章

    助力商业的专业洞见

  • 博客

    ThoughtWorks 全球员工的洞见及观点

  • 书籍

    浏览更多我们的书籍

  • 播客

    分析商业和技术最新趋势的精彩对话

  • 返回
  • 关闭   ✕
  • 概况
  • 申请流程

    面试准备

  • 毕业生和变换职业者

    正确开启技术生涯

  • 搜索工作

    在您所在的区域寻找正在招聘的岗位

  • 保持联系

    订阅我们的月度新闻简报

  • 返回
  • 关闭   ✕
  • 概况
  • 会议与活动
  • 多元与包容
  • 新闻
  • 开源
  • 领导层
  • 社会影响力
博客
选择主题
查看所有话题关闭
技术 
敏捷项目管理 云 持续交付 数据科学与工程 捍卫网络自由 演进式架构 体验设计 物联网 语言、工具与框架 遗留资产现代化 Machine Learning & Artificial Intelligence 微服务 平台 安全 软件测试 技术策略 
商业 
金融服务 全球医疗 创新 零售行业 转型 
招聘 
职业心得 多元与融合 社会改变 
博客

话题

选择主题
  • 技术
    技术
  • 技术 概观
  • 敏捷项目管理
  • 云
  • 持续交付
  • 数据科学与工程
  • 捍卫网络自由
  • 演进式架构
  • 体验设计
  • 物联网
  • 语言、工具与框架
  • 遗留资产现代化
  • Machine Learning & Artificial Intelligence
  • 微服务
  • 平台
  • 安全
  • 软件测试
  • 技术策略
  • 商业
    商业
  • 商业 概观
  • 金融服务
  • 全球医疗
  • 创新
  • 零售行业
  • 转型
  • 招聘
    招聘
  • 招聘 概观
  • 职业心得
  • 多元与融合
  • 社会改变
软件测试技术

Disruptive Testing: Part 3 - Markus Gärtner

Rodney Urquhart Rodney Urquhart

Published: Mar 14, 2014

Hi! Welcome to Part 3 of our series where we interview testers who with their insightful (and disruptive) thoughts challenged and improved the testing practice. Today I interview Markus Gärtner (@mgaertne), agile tester, trainer and coach with it-agile GmbH and author of the seminal book ATDD by Example: A Practical Guide to Acceptance Test-Driven Development. He is a black-belt tester in the Miagi-do school of testing and is a recepient of "The Most Influential Agile Testing Professional Person" award (2013) from Agile Testing Days. Apart from regularly presenting at Agile and testing conferences globally, he blogs about testing, foremost in an Agile context, and contributes to the Software Craftsmanship movement.

Q Can you define your typical workflow as a tester? When does a tester's job begin?

A That's a hard one. Personally I believe that a tester's job should start sooner than most people think - and ends later than when most testers think.

My typical workflow starts with negotiating the contract with the client. The problem there is to negotiate enough freedom, and convince the client that there will be changes according to the various topics that will arise while you are at the client. I also like to have a certain degree of personal freedom that is better negotiated before the contract, rather than during the gig.

After that I start with collecting enough information so that I can get started. That usually happens within a day - otherwise I become nervous and restless. I want to contribute to the project from day one, in some way or the other. Just like developers try to commit on their first day, I strive to make an impact on day one. That's usually hard because – with me being a contractor - you need to get in touch with lots of people while figuring out how stuff gets done at the particular client. That's the hard part of our work.

Q Do you feel it is necessary for testers to formally define test cases?

A That depends. There are circumstances where formal test cases are mandated. I have never worked in such contexts. I also don't see what value these test cases bring at all.

My personal testing style has become agnostic of formal test cases. I still automate test cases, if you would like to use that term there. Yet, I learned to leverage automation to help me learn about the system quickly, and look further than the test cases ever could.

Q What are your views on TDD (Test Driven Development)? Do you feel it affects a testers role or responsibilities?

A Of course it does. The question usually is to what extent.

When a programming team applies TDD well, there are less "forgotten" corner cases for the testers to hunt for. The testers can then focus on more meaningful tests, and ask those questions that are difficult to answer even for business stakeholders – which is a good thing.

On the other hand, if TDD does not relieve testers from more traditional corner test cases, then you have an indicator in place that something is wrong on your team. That's unfortunate, and should trigger a whole team conversation on how to improve from here. I remember hearing about TDD for the first time in 2000, and really getting it in 2008 when I started to really do it. It was a period of 8 years with a shallow understanding of TDD. I never want to write meaningful code without TDD anymore. There’s a huge difference once you experienced the benefits, rather than hearing or reading of it.

Q Who do you feel is ultimately responsible for the quality of the application being built?

A That depends. As Weinberg put it in Quality Software Management Volume 1 “Quality is value to some person.” So, which type of quality are we talking about here?

Most of the time people mean technical, internal quality of the product. This quality comes from the team, when you are using agile methodologies. They are all responsible for the code quality, and that the code is responsive to latest business changes.

Then there is the external observable quality. On an agile team Product Owners play a major role in this - and they usually are better off consulting with the test specialists on the team to get insight into it.

And then there is the quality of the underlying process with the thought that good processes create good products. Coaches and Scrum Masters are responsible for the quality of the process, and creating the right environment where everyone can safely contribute to the products we create.

So, long story short: everyone is responsible for the quality of the application that is being built.

Q How would you recommend measuring a testing team’s effectiveness?

A I would challenge the need to measure it. Ultimately if you can answer the question "Is this working for you" with a clear "yes", it seems effective enough to me.

Q A lot of organizations often struggle to define the career path of a tester. Where should a novice tester begin and what can someone more experienced develop into?

A Novice testers don't fall from heaven. They usually have a background that makes them a tester. Let's call this their primary area of expert knowledge. This might be testing knowledge, this might be business knowledge, or this might be automation knowledge. I don't see a clear "should begin" here.

If they want to developer further, that has a lot to do with the surrounding environment, and their background. If they started with business knowledge as their primary expertise, and the company around them values automation knowledge more than testing knowledge, then they probably need to advance in this direction. Likewise if they have more favor for testing knowledge.

The problem most of the time lies in finding out what the environment around us values. I am a fan of small experiments for large environments. For instance, try to build an automation prototype. If no one is interested in the results, you either need to convince them more if you want to advance in this direction, or you stick with the status quo, and work towards more testing skill. Find out what suits you, where your learning energy lies, and what brings you the most fun right now. From there it will be easy to advance either way.

Q In an environment with roles such as manual or domain testers, should testing and "test" automation be separated in the development process? As in should an organizations have designated testers who test new functionality being built and another role for an automation engineer who focuses on automating system checks. One tester’s responsibility is to find bugs on new features, whereas another one focuses on ensuring previous functionality works as expected.

A I think for each testing activity, you should become aware of why you are doing it. For the cases that you mentioned, manual and automated testing, there are two different goals attached. Manual testing is mostly about tackling important bugs first, and then quickly identifying risks we’re unaware of. Test automation is mostly about preventing problems in the future, and having "un-intended change detectors" as part of a fast-running regression test suite.

These two activities need different skills. There are some folks around that can do both to a reasonable level. If you have that type of folks in your team, you don't need to slice up those employees. On the other extreme there might be people that are good only in one of those skill-sets. In that case, you will have a natural separation in order to cope with your backlog items. Then it would be natural that you separate the two activities.

With regards to your question, should this separation be necessary? Or should we work towards cross-functional team members all the time? I think we should start to think about taking on a few new skills every now and then. And we don't need to become full experts in everything. Thereby we wouldn't achieve anything. I think in the past decade we have heavily worked on creating an extremely “separated” team. I think we need to lessen that picture a bit, and should also avoid hitting the other extreme. That's not suitable, either.

Thank you Markus for sharing your time and insights! 

 

Check out other interviews in this series with James Bach and Lorinda Brandon. And do let us know whom you’d like us to interview next...

  • 产品及服务
  • 合作伙伴
  • 洞见
  • 加入我们
  • 关于我们
  • 联系我们

WeChat

×
QR code to ThoughtWorks China WeChat subscription account

媒体与第三方机构垂询 | 政策声明 | Modern Slavery statement ThoughtWorks| 辅助功能 | © 2021 ThoughtWorks, Inc.